SAFE policy allows each person to withdraw Rmb100k/Y from a Sgp ATM machine, across all your bank cards.
UnionPay system (not HSBC system) allows Rmb 10k per transaction, so you need 10 transactions to use up 100k quota.
100k/Y Quota resets on 1 Jan.
Forex rate is controlled by UnionPay system and should be the same regardless of the bank.
The most obvious justification for card holder performing overseas ATM withdrawal .. to withdraw cash to spend at cash-only shops. There are many cash-only shops in Singapore and Japan. To conform to this usage pattern/expectation, it is prudent to space out two withdrawals.
— best practice
- ensure there’s Rmb 11k balance in China bank account
- optionally bring BOC atm card to deposit immediately
- check debit amount via SMS
- record in ex_china.xls
- spread out the withdrawls to avoid surveillance radar
— throughput .. R100k/Y, better spread out.
With multiple people’s cards, I can achieve perhaps R300k/Y. With grandma and grandpa’s accounts, I can safely take out up to 90k/Y over 9 withdrawals.
— surveillance sensitivity .. medium (for citizens) sensitivity according to a few sources. Lincoln, Yang.Yu and a helpful Hsbc.cn hotline lady advised me to stay clear of the limit.
- “Peraps utilize 80% of the annual limit”.. I will aim at 98%
- “when you are close to 100% of 100k/Y quota, exercise caution and never exceed the limit”
- Lincoln felt foreigners are less scrutinized, but better aim below 100% usage
- For China nationals travelling overseas, aim at 80% of the limit to stay below the radar
UnionPay hotline +861095516 told me nationality doesn’t matter. I get the impression that UnionPay system may have a loophole that might allow a customer to exceed the 100k quota. I guess there exists a technical challenge (to any real time surveillance) when the same customer uses two banks’ cards concurrently on two ATM machines.
* Penalty for breach .. zero quota for the next calendar year.
* Penalty (bigger) .. suspension of the bank card. After that, we may decide to leave a small balance there idle indefinitely until reactivation at branch. This consequence/penalty/scenario is … tolerable.
==== tx cost .. comparable to the 0.75% HSBC.sg fee for Channel520, and easily offset by a few months of DIR
— PSBC (knows I’m a passport holder.) Rmb 62 for a $10k withdrawal. PSBC showed two separate debits on 14 Sep 2024 —
- Rmb 61.98 fees.. close to the $62 max
- Rmb 9995.8 = $1820* UnionPay official rate 5.4922
Rmb 4 charge for balance inquiry on ATM 🙁
— Hsbc (knows I’m a passport holder.) Rmb 110 for a 10k withdrawal.
Repeat 10 times and it costs you Rmb 1100 to withdraw up to Rmb100k… 1.1%+ commission
Hsbc advised me to monitor the actual Rmb conversion amounts. They might exceed 10k!
6 Sep 2024 experience: 5.4741 was the UnionPay official rate. On BOC ATM, I keyed in SGD1820. Total fee = R110 ==> 5.4741 * 1820 + 110 = Rmb 10072.86 deducted from hsbc.cn
On another day, the official UnionPay rate also matched my Hsbc calculation.
— ICBC, CCB, BOC (all know I’m a passport holder.) Rmb 112 for a $10k withdrawal, consisting of R 12 + 1% of withdrawal amount