[18]Y I feel ffree !!US cohort despite higher pay #Deepak

See also big discretionary spends

Background, by definition, my “peers” all have kids, and working in (financial) IT, often with 2 incomes.

Q: why am I feeling financially free but not the U.S. peers despite their higher income
A: My advantages are 1) burn rate 2) nonwork income
A: For their USD 90k burn rate supported by employee health benefit, at 4% reliable return, they need 2.25M invested.
A: For my SGD 36k burn rate supported by medishield, at 6% rental yield, I only need SGD 600k invested

  • passive income — i.e. the incoming side —
    • my projected real-estate passive incomes add up to S$4k+. Do some of my peers have a similar income? Not sure
    • I think too few of my peers have seriously focused on reliable, consistent passive income
  • burn rate — i.e the outgoing side  —
    1. My burn rate is 20-30% lower than my peers in the same location. For example, during the initial stabilization period after my family comes, my burn rate is possibly 7k, including rent + med bx + car
    2. my actual SGP burn rate of S$4-6k is less than their USD9k, largely due to location difference and childcare. Rural China, Malaysia, India .. would be even lower. I think Rural America is somewhat lower but not sure how much. I can ask some U.S. colleagues
    3. In terms of “minimum” burn rate, I think their average in the U.S. is 2 to 4 times higher than mine in Singapore, largely due to medical, transport and rental cost.
    4. SG citizenship — offers cost advantages in terms of medical, college ..
    5. In the job loss scenario, my confidence about reducing burn rate is not echoed by U.S. peers. Can some of them cut from USD9k to USD5k? I assume yes but none of them shows confidence.
    6. I don’t aim to buy a 700k home or send my kids to private colleges. Free of these burdens.
    7. My minimalist lifestyle is rare among my peers. This lifestyle is not theoretical, but visible in action
    8. my confidence about my household burn rate is rare among my peers

— After the analysis, now a more casual look at peer’s burn rate:

I discussed with grandpa about a huge difference between me and my colleagues’ burn rates.
This difference is rooted in their long-term optimism about their earning growth and stock market returns.

(In contrast, my self-confidence about my salary sustainability is based on IV.)

One thing easy and really useful to do with money matters is break-down analysis.
I can see my younger (and some in 40’s) colleagues spending more than I do on food, rent, mortgage, car, vacations, entertainment, gadgets, kids’ enrichment ..
These are often big-ticket items or creature-comfort spending, and clearly luxury IMO

Many believe food is never a big ticket item, but I think they spend $40/D i.e. $15k/Y vs my 4k/Y.

Q: sometimes I feel I can’t (allow myself to) cut further down below my peers because my family could then feel deprived, but can I?
A: I think I some capacity to ignore the peer pressure and maintain my superior brbr.

— In Sep 2020, I discussed “livelihood pressure” with DeepakCM. I described a fictitious family earning 250k [1] combined. Deepak said after-tax 150k/Y or 12.5k/M.

If they spend 10k/M then Brbr is stressful not comfortable. I feel comfortable brbr is 2.0+ but I guess the typical family is unlikely to save half the income.

Deepak pointed out that immigrants leave their home countries behind, and come to U.S. in search for a better life, so these high-income families would spend to enjoy. Lifestyle creep — a stark contrast to my financial discipline.

Q: If these immigrants are able to “accept/cope with” a simpler life but choose to enjoy a better, more /comfortable/ (actually lavish) life, then why do they complain about livelihood pressure like depicted in 中年男士40-50压力最高@@?
A: It depends on the acceptance — like my carefree acceptance vs reluctant, grudging acceptance. I think exclub and FOMO are fundamental /drivers/ in these high-earning immigrants. They are driven to spend, and driven to endure livelihood pressure. Some are unable to say NoThanks, as I described to my sis.

Q: Are they on cashflow high ground, with their high income?
A: No necessarily.

Q[1]: 250k … what if combined income is 300k? I think by most wealth-management standards that income would put the family in a different league . Indeed, some of my U.S. (I didn’t write “SG”) friends, my ex-classmates, and possibly my sister are in the “wealthy” exclub and not comparable to the rest of us. Their livelihood pressure, their Brbr, their assets are not comparable to mine.

[18]early retirement ] SG #YW.Chen

ffree cashflow projection has the latest figures

Update: Today YW gave some numbers. He felt 60k/Y burn rate is the minimum for his family of three . With 2M asset he would need something like 3% annual return but he dreams of 8%. He feels 2% annual return is seriously insufficient but I doubt it.

Key Differences between me and some my peers:

  • I really really want to work till old age. Many of them wish to retire in 40’s.
  • Burn rate – my determination and discipline on burn rate control.
  • My wife and I have Singapore citizenship

See also eg@personal financial independence within%%family

YW mentioned early retirement. I guess with their combined savings, they probably can do it. Assuming their burn rate is USD 5k/month, their passive income and savings can probably last 30-50 years.

I estimate my family burn rate now at SGD 5k to 6k a month. I have around SGD1.5k passive income now. If my entire family stop working, we would move to a rental apartment in Singapore (US rents are much higher) and lease out our current apartment, with a net rental income about SGD 1k. Hopefully my Philippines property could contribute SGD 1k passive income. If we also maintain our burn rate at SGD 3k as planned, we would be able to survive in Singapore without touching our savings. (After age 67, CPF-LIFE should contribute SGD 800~1600 for each spouse.)

SGD 3k/M is a reasonable estimate. See CPF-Life/covid19 $handout reflect`(jobless)burn rate

“Survive” comfortably, I hope. I have reason to hope so, since I follow a primitive system to track my expenses for years, so I know where we spend. I’m fairly good at it.

My family’s major medical expenses are largely covered by integrated shield plans in Singapore. We are debt free.

In reality, situation is better — my wife and I both can work till old age. As I told everyone I want to work till 65+ in technology, and till 75+ in some other domain. That plan has never changed. I think my wife also prefers to work and earn her own living.

Other cities? Once we stop working, we could move to cheaper locations in Malaysia, as described in multiple blog posts.

I used to fancy other domains outside banking IT. Now I have mellowed up. I keep my options open, but I accept banking IT jobs for the rest of my career. At VP salary, the workload is non-trivial but manageable. If I grow old and can’t cope, then I will settle for a lower salary in banking IT.

Even with our relatively low combined income, I’m positive about our capacity for relatively early retirement, because of

  1. burn rate — my confidence to control our burn rate, based on insight into our past burn rate
  2. our confidence to keep earning two salaries and growing our retirement nest egg, up to whatever time I want to retire
  3. college — my decision to leave college education funding to “other people”
  4. medishield+polyclinics — for Singapore citizens
  5. properties — in relatively good locations and inflation-proof

[18] with%%retirement plan+Fuller,still fearful@@ #PIP

  • Given …
  • I have a strong job seeker profile.
  • U.S. job market is age-friendly.
  • My kids are growing up just fine.
  • My marriage is not in danger.
  • everyone is in good health, esp. myself.
  • …. but still I have big worries:
  1. #1: 50% chance) PIP? another blow to self-image. I have “prepared” multiple layers of protection
    • financial impact? not much
  2. #2: 5% chance) my health? Low probability but high impact.
  3. Kids not doing great academically? Not such a big deal. They are generally bright.
  4. investment losing value? Most of my investments are in safe places – HDB, CPF, Beijing home …
  5. left-behind on the slow track (FOMO)? but (as stated elsewhere) why I don’t celebrate my beautiful wife …?

 

ffree: 2nd phase@62 #grandpa

I prefer binary frameworks (simplicity) instead of 3-way frameworks!

Real financial freedom (salary-free) is less realistic now than at 62, as grandpa pointed out. Key factors

  • #1) my health
  • burn rate: after kids grow up … S$3k projection based on analysis. CSDoctor also pointed out that young kids require much higher burn rate.
  • burn rate: now S$6k. Need to refrain from _some_ of the luxury spends of the middle class. Perfectly fine with myself. Sounds hard on the family, but I often feel it’s doable.
  • non-salary income: medishield
  • non-salary income: CPF Life
  • non-salary income: net rentals
  • asset: inflation-proof properties
  • asset: inheritance
  • Fuller wealth
  • .. see actual figures in 3 ffree scenarios: cashflow figures

Note 1: This is about cashflow freedom, not “retirement”. In fact, I might be among the pioneer generation who keep working till my last day.

Note 2: Actually I still prefer to look at near-term cashflow freedom… cashflow figures ] 3ffree scenarios

[17]semi-retired thanks2rental yield #R.xia

More than one casual friend (Philip and a Prudential road show manager) recently remarked that I looked like semi-retired. They said that for different reasons actually, but one common factor is what I told each person about property investments.

Sometimes, it feels too tiring trying to maintain this salary. Therefore rental yield is the relief I have always dreamed of. Grandparents’ Beijing home can’t rent out (rental would be something like RMB 10k/m), but I hope all my other properties can generate S$5k/m

You said your neighbor collected 7Y of rental income (total 200k?) but used it all to restore the home. Now I feel these numbers are questionable — The damage caused by the Mexican tenant was perhaps less than (say 70% of) the total rental income. Perhaps your neighbor decided to spend the rental income on renovation. Renovation is more than restoration! Some people say “I have to spend all this extra income just to restore …” as a way of self-justification.

( Compare my sister, who used to spend her year-end bonus within weeks …)

So I don’t know if your neighbor actually need to spend 7Y worth of rental income just to restore a house. I think in most cases rental yield exceeds the cost of restore. My cost of restore was below $500 after renting out my flat for 3Y.

Anyway I have lost my appetite for stocks and bonds. In one investment account (FSM), I earned about S$22k (+/-2k) profit till Mar 2017, over 4 to 5 years. I invested very roughly S$100k (50k to 150k excluding money market). Low but positive return! I’m fine with that, because in this account liquidity was my priority. I put relatively small amounts into risky markets. Low risk, low return. For example,

  • very roughly $5k within that portfolio was invested in U.S. stocks. It generated roughly 50% return, better than the rest of the portfolio.
  • my big US high-yield investment (S$50k – 80k) generated very low net return perhaps 0 to 3% over 4Y
  • Some small amounts ($100 – $500) generated roughly 10% return

Around 2013/2014 I did email you about my goal to generate higher profit (like S$2k/month) from my stocks/bonds investment. I know it Didn’t work out but not sure why. I think the dividends can be relatively steady but the NAV  has been unsteady.

Now I feel in Cambodia, Manila and Singapore, property is a superior asset class for both passive income and capital appreciation. Perhaps that’s one reason I look semi-retired.

short answer2bx,retirement,financial freedom…

see also post on PR chart
see also email to Junli about financial freedom
see also https://tanbinvest.dreamhosters.com/2017/02/06/cashflow-during-retirement/

Let’s not try to be precise. Use point forms…

The ONE answer — stay healthy to work till 75

! any (professional) job would earn us $3k, even if we are not so “relevant” to the economy.

Observation: my wife and I have low burn rate…. S$3k.

Assumption: kids give or take net to $0. Medical, rent .. analyzed in https://tanbinvest.dreamhosters.com/2017/02/06/cashflow-during-retirement/

My bias: The longer I extend my “relevance” to the /value chain/, the longer I can earn a premium salary, well above the “regular” IT salary.

savings enough2last20Y now5Y#with kids

Burn rate can either reduces or contributes to long term look-ahead worry. Since my bachelor years, My monthly burn rate has increased all the way to $5k – $6k, largely due to the taxes (https://tanbinvest.dreamhosters.com/2016/10/21/after-tax-income-be-careful/)

One reason — when living alone (like White Plains) I enjoy and take pride in my “simple lifestyle”. However, when my kids are with me, I see such a lifestyle not as simple and beautiful but impoverished and deprived. I want a bigger home for them, toys, enrichments …

When a bachelor, my burn rate was below $1k excluding rent. Contrast the recent peak, when my burn rate exceeded $10k/m
  • $2.5k mtg
  • $2k on average UChicago
  • $1.5k on average allowance paid to wife and GM
  • up to $1000 “taxes” including utilities, MRT, town council, school bus
  • —– (7k so far) ——
  • $1200 on average pre-school fees. $1400 -> $800+$300
  • $300 insurance — annually Aviva $600 + AIA $1700 + AXA $1100 + Prudential $400 + MSIG $300
  • $500  training for boy (on average swim $100, fitness $300, piano $60, home tutor $150, ad-hoc community center courses)
  • $400 NTUC
  • $500? (on average) travel + dining
see also https://tanbintpy.wordpress.com/2016/10/09/reduce-monthly-spend-from-5k-to-4k/