##conflict`preferences: Buy]Bayonne

Update — JackHe pointed out that for my first buy, don’t need to think about suitability for family. I feel this attitude can be a welcome relief. Grandpa said the same — don’t need to discuss with wife.

Option C — condo Option 2 — 2FM
family use? higher chance than Option 2 yes if close to PS14 but I still prefer to live close to HBLR + parks
.. or rent out default choice. better investment value. lower cash flow risk
size up to 1300, otherwise oversize oversize would break my budget !
condition good condition. no renovation planned acceptable condition
tax + HOA higher running cost less important if letting
maintenance distraction + higher running cost
loc must: close to PS14+train
street cleanliness usually cleaner street, as the condo takes care LG
budget Ideally below 250k. Above 300k no additional value to me or tenant, and over-commitment 250k-350k

Location preference within Bayonne: [b = binary criteria. If good enough, then I don’t care how good]

  1. Better physical condition so I don’t worry much about renovation. Renovation is manageable for some buyers but a risk to a new buyer like me, albeit a well-understood risk. Jack He agreed.
  2. running cost — tax+HOA+maintenance. Tax is a big drawback to some Bayonne condos 🙁
  3. [b] Close to the better middle/elementary schools. Nicholas Oresko seems to be the best rated. Lease-spread if necessary — rent nearby [1] and rent out our home [2]!
    • [1] 1500 – 2000/month is possible.
    • [2] should be easy, though the rent amount is an uncertainty
  4. smaller price tag (and tax)? Am willing to pay a small premium for those features important to me, but overall price tag is the smaller the better. See prefer small investments,esp.property
  5. Rent amount? Those with dual entrances often come in poor condition or with bigger price tag.
  6. — less important —
  7. [b] reasonable size. See sqf: most U.S.homes are over-sized Those oversize yet clean units invariably cost more than I need.
  8. [b] street cleanliness; cleaner, richer street (usually near the parks)? still a concern.
  9. no stairs if possible. Am willing to pay a premium for it.
  10. bigger windows.
  11. gas heating is best; electric means higher running cost

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/bayonne-nj/#category_housing has nice charts. One shows the national histogram vs Bayonne histogram! Another shows that nationally 64% of homes are owner-occupied, but 37% in Bayonne.

新泽西 小港 Bayonne(贝昂)印象

8月6日 5-10点 我看了3 套房子 + 骑车观光 2 小时。8月12日第二次.

(分数: 可以对比爱迪生地区)

  1. 中学/小学 60 分 — https://tanbinvest.dreamhosters.com/2017/08/01/bayonne-schools/
  2. 街道市容 60 分  —  超越我的想象, 有很多街区超越八大道地区平均水平。有的区感觉家家户户门前都整洁, 连后院都休整过。但隔几条街就年久失修 破破烂烂, “天上人间”。看了四五个区感觉这是个有年头的城市。一小部分楼房是最近30年建的。其余的民居大都是很旧的木房, 外观需要维护才可以达到赏心悦目。大多数屋主都没有做到家。可能因为这都是出租房? 更重要的, 根本的原因大概是经济能力。
  3. 房价 90 分 — 我看过少数几个比较整齐的街区,30 万以内有希望。比爱迪生低10% – 20%。
    1. 一个原因是房子更老
    2. 一个原因是土地面积小得多。房子密度, 这里明显高过郊区。
    3. 至于建筑面积(不同于土地面积),可能比郊区略小一点,可能是因为贫富。当地平均收入明显低于爱迪生。
  4. 共管公寓 (condo)有更小型的,所以开价更低,升值潜力也较低。很多都比带地的民居盖得晚,大部分都是砖而不是木结构。有一部分维护由物业负责不用屋主操心。 这几方面可能更适合我们.我希望找比较新,干净的,30 万以下。我看到几套成交额25万左右,是泽西市价格的 1/4 – 1/3 ! 共管公寓在这里比爱迪生火车站旁明显多一些。
  5. 汽车依赖性 60分 —  比我想象的好.  相信自行车可以走遍全城。一条主要购物街上行人总能(包括晚9点)多少看到几个。看我们住哪里, 买东西少量的也许可以走去。大量的, 就需要骑车或开车。但距离不远就在市区内。我甚至骑去泽西市一次,大约 20 分钟 进入泽西市中心, 一直骑在人行道,而不是机动车道上。也没有上高速。人行道还不错。
  6. 公园绿地 90分 — (类似哈佛大学旁我们住过的  Porter Square 区, 远远超越八大道)海滨公园至少4个, 最小一个也有3个足球场尺寸.  每个公园都草坪清洁。海边人行道平坦干净 适合跑步和骑车。 晚上10点还有许多老的小的 在绿地漫步. 让人心感踏实温馨. 公园附近的街区好像比较整洁.
  7. 中国食品采购 40分 — 市内有间小型的中国超市(有鲜鱼)。大型的有两家,要开车10分钟(骑车25分钟)左右。另外, 开25分钟也 能到八大道唐人街.
  8. 日用百货 70 分 — 有一条贯穿全城的长街两旁有上百家小店铺(也有5家银行). 但更多居民喜欢去干净宽敞的购物园区. 有两大一小. 都是平房. 最小的也有新加坡普通购物中心1/2的规模。另两个相当于新加坡两座大型购物中心。也开设电影院 餐馆等等。价格不贵.
  9. 华人密度 — 不只100家。但中国人开的餐馆有几十家。
  10. 移民来自世界各地(可能埃及最多,其次可能是菲律宾).我知道华人和印度人也有买在这里. 所以我并非唯一少数民族.种族多元化高于很多新泽西的郊区.  相比之下,美国很多富人区(包括著名学区)白人占绝对多数.
  11. 治安不错。商店玻璃窗都没铁门。某中国餐馆老板说,这里没有抢钱的,胜过别的一些城市。

爱迪生火车站地区 – 郊外的华人聚居区

Zofia,

你39 岁生日那天, 我从早上10点 ,跟着一个台湾籍(两个子女都曾在爱迪生上学的)中介转了3 小时, 又独自骑车转到 下午5点.

  1. 学区 90 分(同事可能给70分) —  我推测美国的学区主要由高中的质量(排名)决定。一个学区大都只有一所高中.爱迪生南部的这所高中不算名牌,但公认不错,中上等应该是有把握的.我问的每个都说比不上新泽西某些学区, 但我个人不相信差别会有多大。初中,应该差别更小, 我不知道有几成的家长在买房的时候会去比较两地区的初中。
    • 学校之间这种差别(并非天壤之别),我不在乎.学生个人 + 家长管教监控,影响比学校大.所以中等学校也有好学生.我甚至相信,大多数优秀学生并非名校毕业.台湾中介的子女都进了著名大学.
    • 校风,比学校的名声和排名更应该受到重视.我相信爱迪生的校风和学习环境是没问题的.
  2. 房价 80 分 — 声名远扬的学区, 房价应该是70 万 以上。 Xia Rong 住的学区是有名的, 现在估计一套房最少要60-70万,还是比较旧的.  据说有的知名学区基本上每套都上百万.   为什么这么贵呢? 平方米价位高,是原因 B, 但我相信最重要的原因A 是房子大.  对比爱迪生  — 我在这儿看的几家都是 1500 SQF 或更小. 最多 42 万美元, 其实装修和维护得很不错, 我和双方中介都同意。
    • 共管公寓 (condo)有更小的,所以开价更低。可能更适合我.
    • 爱迪生房子有大的, 估计要 50 万以上. 我们没有请老人来带孩子,不必住那么大的。 所以我想找1200 SQF  左右 (大巴窑 1119 SQF)最好不超过 30 万美元 。 我会很轻松。 50万以下我都能承受。70万很辛苦。
    • 另一原因 C 是供求不平衡。 据说著名学区房子少但各种族慕名而来的买家太多。我周围的中,印,俄,还有欧洲的白领移民,统统选择在有名的学区买房.我猜可能是移民普遍对美国初等教育水准信心不够.所以买最高档的名牌,买个放心.少数美国白人也买高价学区房,但原因也许不一样.亚裔人口比重,在著名学区相当高,一定高于美国平均值.
  3. 平方英尺价位 90 分-- 车站附近介于$250 – $300, 包括翻新得很漂亮的房子.  对比Newport 是 $600-800. 八大道是$600-900!
  4. 中国食品 90 分--走路可以到超市,15 分钟吧.骑车5分钟.开车会方便很多.只有住在 法拉盛或八大道(买不起) 可以比爱迪生更方便。
  5. 华人密度 90 分– 在新泽西,华人数目最大的城镇就是爱迪生(南部)。 据说有华人团体.我猜测不只一个。这一带有 4 家华人/韩国超市。 没有足够的华人估计不可能生存。对比法拉盛, 八大道的 华人占到当地人口 40%。 爱迪生没有那么高。
  6. 街道市容 70 分--街道比较整洁,我相信主要是因为每户屋主清洁门前街道和草坪。 最重要是没垃圾,没有破房子(不像 Brooklyn  Murtle Avenue 有些区).另外, 我今天走的几公里人行道,还算干净,没有杂草丛生.但可能不受重视(步行的人非常少), 有些地砖破损, 或被地下树根顶起来。 荒凉破旧?  略微有一点。我觉得美国大多数郊外的街道都在这个水准。应该超过 八大道地区 (房子更旧,我曾看到一些破旧房子)。总的来说比不上我见过的富人区,包括著名学区, 包括波士顿的 Cambridge ,或 Newport 那类滨河花园级别,没那么舒适亮丽。尽管如此, 我觉得很安全。带着孩子步行买东西也可以.
    • 爱迪生也有比较亮丽的街区,但不一定在火车站附近。
    • 我现在住的 White Plains,比爱迪生富裕程度略高,街道看起来更新更亮丽。
  7. 出租难度 70 分--我们不住的话,房子出租是可能的。台湾中介说,只要靠近车站,没问题。车站对面有上千单元的出租小区.2007 年我就来看过这类出租小区.可见这里是有租客需求的.一个吸引力是华人印度人多.
    1. 粗略估算,每月 分期付款 $1000, 地税 $600,维护费用 $200, 总数与房租相等.  如果我逐步减少未偿债的数目, 房子分期付款自然会减少。另外,如果房子增值, 租金可以调高。希望可以每月净收入一点比如$50.
    2. 美国比新加坡租金高, 贷款利息也高, 所以我会尽快减贷。
  8. 升值潜力 60 分--爱迪生房子也有升值, 但好像比我们住过的很多地方涨得慢。Newport, Hoboken,八大道, 法拉盛, 皇后区很多地段都涨得快很多。我觉得距离纽约这么大老远的地区太大、太多, 只有榜上有名的学区才有足够的实力(求购)快速升值。爱迪生不是那种学区,算普通学区吧。车站附近还有大片荒地。
  9. 汽车依赖性 40 分(不及格)--我希望尽量少开车。Newport,八大道,法拉盛都是我习惯的步行街.我现在住的 White Plains 市区也是步行街。 爱迪生南部完全没有市区(很不习惯),没车凑合能活。平时上下班, 买东西, 户外运动, 自行车或步行足够了,但开车的话会方便很多.日常生活之外,办理很多事都需要开车。
  10. 上班路程 0 分--最严重的缺陷是我去纽约/JC 市区上班要 70 至 90 分钟, 其中大约 55 分钟坐在车上. 早晚高峰期大约每 10分钟一趟车. 一定要早起, 早下班, 不然错过高峰期, 要等 20-30 分钟.

Bayonne^Edison

My wife , kids (and I) need to rent or buy a home:

  • 1200 sqf condo , town home or house
  • clean street, not “luxury” level
  • school — conducive learning env + engagement, even if academically mediocre
  • walk or cycle to train station
  • park nearby

Top 5 comparison factors are highlighted below. Bayonne looks slightly better, based on available info and my biased observations. Task ahead is to reduce the bias.

Rental income is important to cash flow. Home Appreciation is likely bigger in magnitude than rental income, but both are less important because I will have rental income from Asia.

https://www.weichert.com/search/community/city.aspx?city=3202 covers Bayonne on a nation-wide benchmark: reasonable crime rate, and statistics on income (low), education levels (low), housing…

Compare Edison — https://www.weichert.com/search/community/neighborhood.aspx?hood=15083 shows lower crime, higher education, higher income, fewer homes rented/more owned

 Edison, near train stn Bayonne
^ decent Nicholas Oresco is highly rated. Parents can more easily push kids up into a top class middle/elem school
yes yes safe for kids playing
^ has some probably less. Can drive to JC too enrichment programs for students
biggest in NJ low Chinese(parents)concentration
Strong reputation many private schools in JC; public schools acceptable schooling risk
46 – 60 minutes ? 35 average (JC/NY) commute between start/end stations. (NYC Subway Adds 15)
^ 10 min (peak) 10-20 min. Alternative to light rail — drive a few minutes into downtown JC, park and cycle train interval
no choice yes I could focus on JC and exclude NYC!  possible job locations within 20 min? I could opt to avoid the distant jobs.
?pre-school JC, NY boroughs? job for wife?
no downtown ^ much better walkable/bikeable neighborhood
not promising ^ promising appreciation
risky though reasonable demand ^ much higher percentage renting. Closer to NYC/JC. Several mid-rise rental apartments rental demand, if we need to rent out
unlikely ^ more common option to collocate with tenant?
fewer units ^ many cheaper units buy tiny 2nd property nearby?
hard ^ feasible buy 2FH under 400k?
300-400k ^ 220-330k price tag
250-300 ^ 150-200 (220 is luxury condo) psf (mostly for condo)
some small units ^ many small units, more affordable size
(lower?) middle class working class. My kids are more likely to get into top classes socioeconomic strata
^ easier, though car is prefered need car Chinese grocery shopping
1 good park ^ more parks parks

rental property JSq^Bayonne^Edison

It greatly reduces the risk of failure to rent out if it can be suitable for myself.

Even at a remote location like Edison, if you reduce the asking rent enough I feel you will rent it out, since there are rental units in the area. Many people don’t mind the Edison commute. Some live even further out.

 Edison JSq/Harrison   Bayonne
 ▼ best reasonable commute self stay
land-based? most promising promising appreciation
(some demand) better? good RD
unlikely possible good chance with multi-family divide
good  (possible) family stay

jersey city: no other alternative to NYC since 1990’s

JC waterfront started growing in the 1980’s. You may think other cities around NYC would rise up to rival JC, but I doubt it. JC is NJ’s 2nd biggest city and America’s 12th largest downtown as of 2011. It took JC 30 years so how long will the next rival need to rise up?

JC downtown (+ Hob) is the only place with

  1. biggest contract job cluster outside NYC
  2. residential close to CBD
  3. served by subway, light rail and citibike
  4. plenty of luxury condos — (better rent not buy them) more than any NJ city.
  5. clean street? WhiteP smaller

There’s a good chance that I can find (contract) jobs in JC, so living in Bayonne or JC is viable.

 

loc: Jersey City

Like Weehawken, this is really 2 cities in one. The downtown (incl. water front) areas have much higher income than the rest including Heights, JSq, Bergen-Lafayette etc. When we speak of JC, some people (like me) only refer to downtown-JC, while others refer to the entire JC. So the impressions, adjectives can be very different.

I basically never ventured outside downtown-JC.

“Bergen-Lafayette has struggled with poverty and high crime for years.”. The moving-in article has even more to say.

Street cleanliness is very different between the 2 jersey cities.

–schools:

Four of the city’s eight high schools are magnet schools. Many more middle school, including one for gifted students. One of the high schools has high ranking, but the SD-average SAT score is well below state average. Mayor acknowledged the problem.

12 charter schools; more than 30 private or religious schools.

Some families are raising kids in JC, but these could still be 2% growing to 2.1%. I still most Chinese parents would move out of JC and it will continue for 30Y.

“Now people don’t move out when they have school-age children anymore.”

“It used to be that people with kids would stay in Jersey City for two years, then buy their house in Short Hills,” he said. “That’s not really the case anymore.”

–Most of the details are from

  • https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/realestate/jersey-city-growing-with-many-personalities.html
  • https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/realestate/the-jersey-city-real-estate-bandwagon.html

–JC advantage over Queens incl RegoPark:
JC has many contract jobs. There’s a good chance I could enjoy a daily bicycle commute.

35 minutes to midtown, comparable to Queens locations

Queens residents pay NYC city tax on total income! Josh confirmed.

–JC disadvantage as a family home, as I told wife
* the safe areas (probably all in downtown) are too costly, even for condos, let alone landed houses.
* public schools are mostly below the top rank. At middle/elementary level, we parents can still push the kids. At high school level, we need to either buy/rent in a better school district, or try religious or charter schools.

white plains^hastings

Jack He said WP is cheaper than Queens or Long Island. He said there are no big companies in Queens or Long Island.

Now that I live here. I can get a realtor to show me around!

  • CC1: I agree that train commute (40 min) is not bad, better than many NJ locations.
  • RD: decent
  • clean street
  • walkable community
  • CC2 rather low

–Hastings advantages

  • Schools
  • More parks?
  • 10 min shorter commute

— white plains advantages

  • Slightly more Chinese, due to larger total population
  • Shopping convenience due to downtown
  • slightly Less car-dependency
  • H-mart