## durability@升值[appreciation] #holding power

Experience shows that our estimate of the downside is usually an underestimate.
Therefore, some risk-averse investors dare not or refuse to trust the conventional wisdom about long-term strength of equity asset class.
They would prefer cash or safe asset classes like soverign bonds.

They suspect that, in general, high-risk-high-return assets may turn out to be high-risk without a real alpha [i.e. without significant likelihood of excess return].

I see long-term strength only in U.S. equity. I consider all other markets highly unstable, but that is probably simplistic and over-generalized.

Q: Pick a random 10Y window some time into the near future (within your lifetime). What is your estimated probability that SP500 (or another stock market) would show a positive return?

The skeptics would probably say slighly above 50%. Some would say that a fairly priced SP500 could, in theory, shoot up 100 times (above fair value) over a year shortly before that window, and then it would be precarious and could collapse any time. However, such a scenario is unlikely because SP500 is hard to manipulate. The buyers would put themselves at grave risk by bidding up the price.

( In contrast, Beijing rEstate valuataion is possibly 5 times above fair value, and could collapse any time. )

How about insurers? I think they invest some 10-20% in eq, the rest in bonds. Appreciation in their portfolio tends to be durable.

How about CPF (and pension funds)? For decades they have relied on eq to provide the required return. They have been fairly reliable, despite many swan events.

Temasek’s 400b is invested mostly in equities, with 62% allocation to Asia. Apparently, there is long-term strength in Asia equities, but I think this is misleading, because the retail investor would lack the resources of a gigantic fund, and unable to limit numerous losses that add up.

Some would predict an eq hedge fund could hit “positive returns for a few years, then give all up in one bad year”. Well, MLP is one of the biggest hedge funds and we count some pension funds and insurers as investors. We are mostly equities but rather stable over the last 3 decades.

Now I feel Nsdq (or another U.S. index) is susceptible to “fast_window” of 500% appreciation. That would precede a very long trough.


past title: durability of asset appreciation

Q: after an asset appreciates by 100%, how confident are we about its stability? Note cpf and bonds won’t show such high appreciation.

  • eg: appreciation of a racing horse .. won’t last long
  • eg: One 92s27 classmate (水生?) bought a recreational club membership nearby. The membership is lifetime and transferrable, with a market price. My classmate felt confident that the price has held steady. If it shows an appreciation, how much confidence do you have?
  • eg: gold .. a curious story. Somehow it is perceived as more stable than stocks, but still not very stable.

— holding power.. My bias: the stronger investors, the wise investors tend to allocate more to the more “durable” assets, and hold them through a trough, rather than liquidating at a loss.

Q: What if a durable asset hits a swan, and experiences a trough longer than expected? Is it really durable?
A: That scenario is non-academic; it is the reason for risk-management. We would need to reassess the 20Y prospect. Very unlikely we would need to liquidate at a loss.

— swan events .. a major source of instability. I feel U.S. stocks and some rEstate markets recover fast or don’t fall enough to wipe out 3Y of appreciation. I tend to see an economic basis for their appreciation.

In contrast, if the stock/rEstate price is in a speculative bubble, then it isn’t durable. The crash doesn’t need a swan event.

see also scenario plann`: asset devalue over50-100Y

— eg: FWD300 surrender value grows year after year, faster than FLI. The longer you hold, the sweeter.

In constrast, cpfLife has declining surrender value 🙁

— eg: bccy .. no basis for their valuations, so I feel high valuations can evaporate faster.

Binance founder CZ … over 5Y became #1 richest Chinese in the world, but how long did he last?

— eg: rEstate .. appreciation is usually more stable. We are more confident about its durability. I think rEstate have much slower price changes than stocks. The monthly count of transactions is a trickle compared to stocks.

In general but not always, the faster something appreciates, the less durable, unless it is a scarce resource without substitutes.

— eg: SP500.. no other stock index shows the same /durability/ of appreciation.

— eg: single-name stocks ..
For a growth stock, the appreciation is mostly based on projected growth, rather than declared earnings. I feel it is less stable.

Compared to traditional blue-chips, tech blue-chips have less moat, and face more frequent challengers and churn.

I feel traditional, boring stocks seldom show fast appreciation. When they do, I feel more confident about its durability.

time=onYourSide iFF…#patience #stableAppreciation

 


k_babysit4exit

My friend Kun.H is the first one to remind me this vague yet powerful factor (See my Feb 2021 mail below). Warren Buffett also mentioned some variation of it. He wants to buy-n-hold for decades. IFF you choose wisely, then the assistance of Time can be effective and quick. I think ValueInvesting often shows powerful examples but not everyone is able to follow ValueInvesting principles.

— BnH: time is on your side if you buy and hold. If you try to time the market to exit, then time is probably not on your side.

Assuming BnH is a good thing, BNH proves to be much easier with real assets due to higher tx cost ?!

For both BGC and khm investments, I need many more years than initially planned (10Y). Luckily, I invested at age 41 and later, so I have a long runway.

— swans and price stability
With speculative assets, I don’t feel time is on your side. See https://tanbinvest.dreamhosters.com/1786/durability-asset-appreciation/

ChineseBambooTreeParable .. is more relevant in pff than in other domains, because:

  • buy-n-forget .. you need due diligence to pick the seed. After that, you don’t need to babysit.
  • there’s an effective “system” at work, with the power to grow the asset. No such “system” outside the pff domain.
  • in pff, from Year 1 you can see the current value:) In the classic CBTP, the current value is $0 for four long years, i.e. no immediate result 🙁

Q: which asset classes are economically no-growth ?
* gold and oil … supposed to be scarce commodities with increasing demand, but the market may take decades to reflect that.
* bccy
— is time on your side in these asset classes? It depends on your horizon and other factors.

  • Time is usually on the side of productive assets, unless the payout rate is not growing enough.
  • U.S. stocks in general yes, but non-US tend to have long trough, so during your lifetime, Time may not be on your side.
  • U.S. index ETF .. long-term trend exceeds expRatio, so yes Time is on your side.
  • (see also mail below)
  • zero-coupon bond? Its value approaches par, but it is dubious to say Time is on your side. I guess in a volatile market, you can just hold the bond to maturity and therefore Time is on your side.
  • rEstate in developing countries — yes (but probably not in most parts of U.S. See blogposts on Brian.)
  • .. For rEstate, Time can be a lifetime 😉
  • REITs .. yes the rental payout gives hope that Time is on your side.
  • small amount of physical gold (so that I can keep at home at very small negative DYOC)? Time may not be on your side as gold long trough can last decades.
  • mufu? with expense ratio time is on fund manager’s side
  • FX? No
  • annuity like CpfLife? probably yes. The longer you live, the more payout you receive.
  • endowment and other insurance products? questionable
  • .. Note there’s a high expense ratio in all insurance products, worse than mufu.

—– Letter to Kun.H
I like your comment about “have time on our side”. Mutual funds have an erosive expense ratio, so time is on the fund manager’s side 😉

To have Time on my side, one of my habits is buy-n-hold. (A related habit is buy-n-forget, as explained in the earlier mail below. If I must babysit my positions, then Time is not really on my side.)

Q: Do stock markets show long-term growth more than inflation?
A: Not sure. Depends on the region and the timeframe. Most authors use U.S. equities history over the past 100 years. What if they only look at the last 20Y? What if they look at another region beside the U.S.?
A: Beware of survival bias. There are thousands of growth stocks (including fake and failed growth stocks) in the last 50 years, but if we include all stocks across all equity markets, the long-term trend would look less convincing, less foolproof.

In contrast to growth stocks, look at T:US. Not much of a long-term trend,  but it delivers a consistent dividend, following a sustainable DPR (dividend payout ratio). Looking at my dividend stocks like T:US, I feel “Growth is overrated and based on flawed analysis but dividends seldom lie.

Our friend, Time, is a big help in dividend stocks — If the business has healthy profit, cash flow and DPR, then time will prove that the stock is worth buying. Its valuation will tend to grow with the overall market, perhaps at a low beta.

With growth stocks, Time is even more helpful. Beware
* we must pick the real growth stocks not fake ones (with dividend stocks I mostly look at track record only)
* we may need to baby-sit them after we buy (less baby-sitting for dividend stocks… buy-n-forget)

It’s easier to be patient with an investment when it generates periodic cash incomes.

You raised the excellent question about bonds. High coupons are usually on long bonds… where inflation (Time) is NOT on our side. In contrast, about half of my dividend stocks could hopefully grow with the stock market. Both dividend amount and stock price would grow. Nevertheless, there is indeed a chance that my dividend stocks underperform bonds.

With both growth stocks and dividend stocks, we need to have Time on our side and we need patience.

My objective is not windfall appreciation. My objective is a dependable income, like retirees. For my objective dividend stocks are safer. I believe Time is on my side. Time will tell.

liquidity[def]: how I gauge ILLiquid products

I define liquidity as the expected number (possibly zero) of waiting months to fully recover my capital [1]. If I must incur a financial cost to access my cash, I consider it inferior liquidity. It feels like mis-calculation and mis-planning.

As defined, liquidity is a top 3 consideration in my investment decision.  I often think of liquidity more than (the vague concept of) risk. Therefore, liquidity is a dominant feature of my risk appetite and risk profile.

[1] Here is a fake example to illustrate some fine points. Say you incrementally buy one share of BRK.A and wait for X months to get near BrE. Presently, you only need to access the earliest 22% of that amount, but you have to liquidate the whole share, at a 3% loss. Still a big loss. So at the current price, the investment is not yet “free”, not at ABE, i.e. not_yet_liquid. However, suppose I also bought one share same way as you. If I’m able to select which fractional lot to liquidate, and able to liquidate the first 22%, then I am at ABE, i.e. breakeven on that 22% of capital. In such a scenario, the investment is already-liquid. In this illustration, fractional sell improves liquidity.

  • term insurance? liquidity is moot. Not an investment.
  • annuity? liquidity is moot. Not an investment.
  • cash-like? most liquid and low-risk

— ABE = actionable breakeven = a situation where I can liquidate a given position to achieve breakeven. Whether this breakeven includes various costs (like commission, FX) is unspecified. I usually include all costs.

BrE = breakeven. Half the times, the BrE situation is theoretical not actionable.

— With risk capital investments (rEstate, equities, HY/PE, gold …) there’s a pdf bell curve. I might have to wait for 10 years to breakeven and be free to liquidate (partially) to access part of my initial capital, or the wait could be 2Y.

I am used to this type of risk-capital liquidity. I have learned to embraced this type of risk-capital investments.

Mufu …. is generally less liquid than holding equivalent stocks because the wait is lengthened by erosive expensive ratio + upfront fees

Note dividend payout often improves risk-capital liquidity. Some risk-capital investments have no dividend — gold; SIA;  growth stocks

— My common objection to endowment products is super-safe illiquidity. No matter how lucky things turn out to be, I am likely to wait a long time before I can break-even via policy surrender.

CPF-OA/SA features horrible super-safe illiquidity, so I only accept CPF involuntarily.

— How relevant are bid-ask spread, upfront fees, and depth@market? Relevant.
Large transaction costs hurt liquidity as I defined.

lure@bccy, ##saferAssets

Fact: I’m spending more time reading/blogg about bccy. Years ago, I diddn’t bother, then I blocked out the “radiation” of news story from friends and mass media.

I feel bccy trading is dangerous, comparable to gambling, addictive gaming, and speed driving. However, it’s increasingly difficult to stand back and stay detached.

I tell myself no to try even a small amount. The small amount could increase my confidence. The experience could easily lead to additional, bigger investments, but (most parts of ) the bccy /ecosystem/ is fundamentally flawed in many ways. Given my conviction about the flaws, I will not want to open the pandora’s box.

— Compare: Speed driving gave me a false sense of confidence. I learned from experience that it felt “not so scary” to drive at those speeds, but my experience was very limited and probably misleading.
— Compare: HY/PE… The earlier “successes” give investors confidence, and many of these investors would increase their commitment, at their peril
— Compare: Cambodia rEstate .. earlier “successes” increased my confidence, which led to dangerously high concentration in Phnom Penh. This thought has prompted me to compile a ranking of my assets by safety/resilience against swan events:

  1. cpf, SGD and USD cash
  2. hdb home
  3. Beijing house
  4. BGC, despite the weak currency
  5. U.S. stocks including 401k
  6. thePeak

SnD(supply-n-demand): stocks,rEstate,,

SND stands for “supply-and-demand”. As a universal framework for investment analysis, it has limitations in some markets. In this blogpost I will focus on my asset classes.

— PE/HY-bond — I bought a few times. I think in this case supply is tightly controlled by the issuers and demand is dominated by credit risk and coupon rate.
Investor mind share is very low. No herd anything.

— commercial properties — Probably less retail influence than in residential market, and less herd sentiment.

  • supply is mostly institutions including the builder. There may be retail sellers.
  • demand is mixed. Most retail buyers prefer residential.

— residential properties — high Demand from retail investors.
I think retail investors often value comfort and luxury in additional to total return. These are rational considerations for consumption assets.
— penny stocks on SGX or U.S. — investor mind share is much lower than blue-chips. However, herd mentality can still affect some retail sellers.

  • Supply side is the existing shareholders, probably much fewer than for well-known stocks esp. from the U.S.
  • Demand is also lower

— well-known stocks — are the extreme case of sky-high SND. Both supply and demand sides have large institutional investors, but price is often driven by retail investors. Retail investors can be irrational and mis-informed, and can ignore the fundamental and mostly follow herd sentiment.

Therefore, to make money in these stocks, fundamental analysis may not help (may be relevant in the long-run) and sentiment/timing may be the dominant factor. I generally avoid these stocks.
— physical gold .. kinda similar to well-known stocks, but bid-ask spread is much worse because an institution is usually the other side of a retail buyer or seller. The institution would demand a bigger bid/ask spread.

Two retail traders directly interacting is only possible on the futures market.

[18]incremental buy-n-hold hero stocks 4div

See https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rich-dividends-time-loves-hero-140657693.html

Consistent div usually comes from a defensive stock, but I have no insight into this popular ValueInvesting wisdom.

— Q: what’s the most valuable “gain” from buy-n-hold on a hero stock?
A: dividend, not windfall appreciation. At my age, I need current income (with principal protected) more than a windfall. I feel holding out for a windfall is easier said than done. Receiving dividends is easier.

To my family, reliable div is more important than index-beating appreciation. See stable div^ fractional@growth_stock

Q: Have I experienced holding a dividend stock long term?
A: GS. No distraction 🙂 However, not really a hero stock.

— why keep holding and avoid selling
I told a few friends that I prefer to buy-n-forget (or buy-n-buy) to collect dividends, rather than selling within 3Y… See DYOC ^ 中长线: babysit #Kun.h

The costs of buying include

  • mental energy of analysis
  • pre-clear .. inapplicable to ETF
  • order entry
  • transaction fees .. inapplicable on robinhood

If I sell, then all of these sunk tcosts are wiped out.

I want to build up dividend income .. Obviously selling is questionable.

— Incremental strategy with dividend stocks
slowly growing the portfolio at a managed tcost. Tcost is a bigger cost than $cost in many cases .. stock: top3concerns#XR: diversify

  1. Step 1: brief due diligence including restrictions. Minimize to 3 min if dollar amount < $20
  2. buy one share each of the dividend stocks, so I get used to living with them, regulating the periodic check.
  3. in a correction, more due diligence then buy more. “Be greedy when others are fearful” — i.e. pick up bargains
  4. if price sinks further, just hold for 5Y. For illustration, see T:US #AT&T # ^Energy12
  5. .. ! .. keep distraction in-check

See also steps: buy@Robinhood

— compare mufu — inferior due to the erosive management fees. The longer you hold, the more annual fee you pay. Therefore, I disagree with Rebecca (UOB). I would use mufu only for non-US stocks.
— compare bonds
nowadays bond yields are low. When they are high, you can buy a bond with 5Y maturity but may not get good yield after that the 5Y. Dividend income can be more long-term if you pick a good stock.
— compare rental properties — see other blog posts like REIT/dividend stock^shop unit

[20]div stocks widely seen as low-growth #laughing stock

utility stocks including T:US need to pay high CDY as they are seen as low growth, which dampens investor demand

VZ is seen as higher growth

—-

For two stocks each generating $5/share in annual dividends, BB is trading at $100, AA at $500. (BB could be O:US or T:US..)

In all cases, dividend per share is decided by management, in each dividend season, even if PnL is negative. In contrast stock price is decided by the market i.e. buyers and sellers, supply^demand.

I feel the market views BB (a blue chip utility such as T:US or IBM) as low-growth, past-the-peak, boring/uninspiring. Therefore, investors demand a 5% dividend yield as compensation to forgo the growth opportunities elsewhere. Consequently, relative to growth stocks, BB is under-priced — good for dividend investors like me.

The fact that 4% div yield is widely considered high-yield implies that bulk of the market prefer high-growth stocks, to the extent that 1% or zero dividend yield is widely accepted. I think most of the market don’t care much about current income (rent or div..) and much prefer windfall profit.

Not sure about other stock exchanges, but I guess U.S. stock market is mostly about growth. A small fraction of the investors care about current income. When I show my 5% current income to friends, they probably walk away laughing that it’s nothing compared to the 100% return they made or heard about, possibly in BTC.

Very loosely, Most of the popular (hot) stocks in U.S. are high-growth, low-dividend. A lot of growth stocks have high P/E, unable to support a dividend.

— value investing? I get the impression that many value investors (following Buffett’s principle or not) would find the high-growth stocks poor value.
Many high-growth stocks have zero or negligible free cash flow.

HighRisk_HighIncome_SmallQuantum: %%fav

Look at my analysis of the SEA rental properties vs other assets. There is valuable self-knowledge that I gained by building the investment experience and by comparing against my friends —

Compared to other small investors, I’m more willing to believe in my research and discussions, and trust the sales agents. I’m more willing to embrace the risks in emerging markets.

I can see that most of my friends will not take these risks, so they won’t have this level of high-yield, long-term passive income. They may have rental yield from China or SG or U.S. High risk high (current) income.

— With these investments, we tend to think the hazard rate is rather high (hit and miss) but a hazard may not turn into a realized loss if you manage and contain it effectively.

eg: Megaworld delay — they didn’t promise a deadline

eg: Ritz delay

— Other examples of high-risk-high-return:

  • Some friends invest in U.S. rental properties with active management. Also high-risk-high-income.
  • Ashish’s INR time deposits feature 7% interest rate but currency devaluation risk.
  • Energy12 is high-risk-high-income
  • high-yielder currencies

khm shop units=excellent outlier@@ No!

Now I think the 3 shop units together appears to be an outlier if “plotted” along return vs risk

  • ==== returns
  • guaranteed rental without vacant period.
  • potential windfall
  • — cost that erodes returns
  • 0 legwork — huge cost in the U.S. context and Singapore too
  • 0 taxes
  • 0 repairs
  • low currency exchange cost
  • ==== risks are mostly listed on REIT/dividend stock^shop unit but I will pick a few
  • uncertainty of dividend? perfect track record so far
  • perceived risk to principal? no sign of trouble but this is the biggest question mark over the outlier status.

Conclusion — too early to call it an outlier. Need to see some units changing hand at reasonable prices.

Because this data point appears to be so much ahead of the pack, I tend to develop emotional attachments.

I tend to feel too proud of them.

##few asset classes worth investing 50k+

I feel completely unconvinced about most investment products. Before investing in anything, my due diligence time and effort is rather high, so now I prefer bigger quantum. With bigger quantum, the due diligence is more worthwhile.

Q: in what asset classes do I feel comfortable investing 50k or more?

  1. my own home, to avoid paying rent!
  2. shops and other rental properties in good locations
  3. U.S. stocks including index. I might invest 10k, but not 50k. Current income too low.

Based on personal experiences and family members’ experiences, I feel much safer with “real” assets.

  1. short duration bonds

I invested over 100k in a U.S. high-yield bond fund but it didn’t perform well. I guess expRatio (1.36% now) is one factor.