strict 校风: commitment+enforce by school mastered in the open blog
Tag: t_SDXQ
I see no reason to buy学区房 even if affordable #summary
If I liquidate enough assets I could theoretically afford a $800k home in a top school district, but if I have that much spare cash I would rather deploy it elsewhere!
Fundamentally, I don’t perceive academic benchmark as important as other immigrants do. Today I will focus on middle/elementary school level, though much of what I discuss here applies to high school too.
- Background — In U.S. individuals without excellent grades are given many more chances than in Asia (Jack He’s pointer.) but …
- Evidence — In Asia or other continents many successful individuals don’t come from top colleges, or have excellent grades in high school; conversely, majority of good students are mediocre in their careers outside the academic domain. (Even in science and literary domains, not everyone was a top student at middle school level.)
- Evidence — as discussed in my open blog, most top students in middle school fail to keep the lead in college. By international standardized tests, East Asian middle school students far outrun U.S. students, but years later, after leaving college, my U.S friends and colleagues don’t show any sign of weakness at all. Therefore, I believe there’s too much emphasis on middle-school level academic benchmarks.
Instead of benchmarks, my main criteria are a conducive learning environment and engagement. I don’t see evidence that most academically mediocre schools are inadequate in that regard.
I believe a large subset of these “average” schools provide a good environment, whereas some top schools may fall short.
Grades are not as important to me as other immigrant parents, but grades are still important as the main goal for a student. There are many options to improve my kids’ grades, listed in ##many options: avg学区 !=avg school #index None of them requires buying a coveted school district house. The most I would do is to rent there.
silly to care so much about SDXQ rating like 8/10
What’s the difference between a 7/10 vs 8/10 school? The rating is given by some rating agency, based on nothing but test scores. See my post on “methodology”
The state-level ranking is equally unreliable.
A 8/10 school here will pale against an average Singapore school in terms of standardized benchmark. So why treat it like Princeton?
A typical Singapore school may be rated 9/10 on many aspects not only academics.
## j4 break-away from 学区房 herd instinct
I have a fundamental, deeply felt objection to buying [1] in top school districts, but the overwhelming convention wisdom among my Chinese/Indian fellow parents is something like “any school district below 8/10 is a dangerous thing you could do to your kids.” Paul said “They deserve better.”
[1] Renting? a bit of reservations too
That’s why I need powerful, convincing justifications:
- income level — ours vs theirs
- psf level has gone up from 5 year ago
- Unlike my peers, we have Singapore as a fall-back plan if our kids don’t cope well in an average school
- commute – my tolerance of long commute is significantly lower. I’m not ashamed.
- property investment – I already have some including Beijing (partial), so my dependency on this SD prop investment is lower
- most SD homes are oversize, leading to 300k-500k premium, in addition to pTax. Some key rationales for tiny-investments preferences are exactly about school district homes.
- Look at the important choices and opportunities listed in ##have options: average学区 != bad school
##[17] top SDXQ: what r we pay`4
–Update in 2020: Q: What does a school district mean to me?
A: It means level of drug prevalence.
A: It means motivation level among fellow students.
A: I don’t care that much about benchmark score
SG average school is possible a 7/10 (possibly 10) school district in terms of benchmark and discipline. Similarly, California schools often has higher academic standard than NJ school districts.
Why do I spend so much on U.S. top school districts (housing, private schools etc) when Singapore is cheaper and better?
Buyers bid up home valuations. According to my friend Paul Meduna, when buyers pay the pTax (or rent) in such a school district, they are paying to be entitled to the local high school.
They put a high value on the SD not only because they put that value on the local high school. I guess their kids may not enroll in that high school (but Paul disagrees). Even if they do, that school may not be suitable for them (too competitive?)
For me, the high school is not the most important thing I pay for. In addition to the high school, buyers put a value on
- conducive learning environment, 校风, motivation level in the schools, …
- teacher/student ratio and equipment, but the top school districts may not be better.
- academic competition — a double-edged sword
- serious fellow parents. I was told that many Black, Hispanic and other White parents don’t emphasize benchmark performance.
- clean street
- ECA
- asset appreciation
- much bigger home size (but also higher tax and maintenance costs)
- privacy — far from city, trains or neighbors
Conventional wisdom equates top school district rating to superior learning environment.
It’s difficult but conceptually, I want to separate the academic benchmark element from the conducive environment, because these are two separate benefits you pay for.
Most of the costs we pay for top school districts are perceived as a price to pay for benchmark performance. Common parent psychology.
To put it more bluntly, what if the pTax + home price premium (+ longer commute) only “buy” a modern, well-equipped (like in movies) conducive learning environment with many special programs [1], but without the superior academic performance? It could happen if the students don’t put in more effort than students in other schools. I doubt any parents would accept the deal.
More funding doesn’t automatically improve academic performance. At high school level, student’s effort is the #1 factor, followed by 2) abilities 3) parents + teachers.
Schools are rated by benchmark tests, but test score is not always correlated with funding — some very poor schools in China produce better exam takers than the affluent schools. Therefore, you are really paying for an environment and system geared towards test scores.
[1] those ECA programs, even the academic ones, may not directly help the benchmark tests.
For me, I want to pay for a conducive environment, not benchmark performance. An above average school might provide that, at a huge saving.
extra tuition]average学区 #Pinsky
Bill Pinsky said extra tuition really helps students’ grades, in the U.S. (even though he hates the idea).
If it’s true, then this is a cheaper way to stay in an average school district. I believe the cost is much lower than living in a high end school district.
Private tuition is quite a luxury.
学区 rating measures parents’push, #JackHe
Q: What factors contribute to a U.S. public school academic rating, esp. at middle/elementary school levels.
Disclaimer — this write-up is strictly personal bias, not backed by any data.
I shared with Jack my simple “model”, consisting of 4 + 2 factors
- (PE) parents’ effort.
- (SE) students’ own effort and intrinsic motivation, if we could hypothetically remove all influences.
- (SA) students’ abilities. See also https://1330152open.wordpress.com/2016/08/16/roller-coaster-academic-competition/
- (FI) Peer influence from fellow students — the wild card. How important I don’t know.
- —— secondary factors ——
- (PA) parent’s abilities — eg: education level; limited availability due to long work hours and commute.
- Jack observed in wealthy school districts, more parents pick up their kids and spend more time outing with kids.
- teacher/student ratio, qualifications and influence on SE — less important than parent’s influence, at middle/elementary level.
PE – is the dominant factor. That’s why Asian students tend to be top. However, without any evidence, I feel FI can be more effective at influencing student’s effort.
SA – I think 95% students’ abilities are not so different at middle and elementary school levels. Some (like myself) are able to concentrate better than others (my son is easily distracted), but with effort parents can compensate for it. I believe that kids in a poor school district are just as intelligent as kids in top school districts, though abilities encompass more than raw talent. Overall, I believe SA has limited impact on the school’s academic rating at middle/elementary level.
SE – Most kids before middle school are not motivated. Some are less interested in academic studies than others, but with effort parents can compensate for it. Overall, SE has more impact on schools’ academic rating than SA at middle/elementary level.
If in an imaginary school all parents are equally uninterested, then students are left to their devices. Their disparate abilities and effort levels will be more visible. School academic rating would reflect SA and SE. In the real world, most parents have the capacity to effectively control students’ effort. Therefore, PE is the dominant factor contributing to middle/elementary schools’ academic rating.
Q1: If a student is not doing well on the benchmarks, which of those factors would help him if/when moving to a top school? FI only.
At high school level? I don’t want to talk about it but I feel SE and SA are the top 2 factors. FI?
How about in Singapore primary school level? My personal experience – FI is as important as PE! As a parent, I put in a huge effort but other parents put in even more effort.
students affected by families moving home
Q: Those Asian parents who emphasize school districts, what would they say about a student whose parents moves home frequently?
Will they say the student will suffer? They may say it’s something to avoid.
In reality, the student may like it.
I spoke to one American manager. He said in his school years his family moved many times. Presumably, not all top schools. He actually did well in those schools.
I too moved schools and did well.
shades@grey: !! 100%of cohort owning学区房
It’s not black and white like “100% of my Chinese peers bought a nice big home in a top school district.” Reality is not so perfect for “them” 😉
Perhaps some percentage of the Chinese peers bought in an average school districts. Among the rest, some percentage don’t go to the good schools in the district.
Perhaps some bought in a 2nd-tier school districts. Indeed the #1 school district may not be in this NY region.
Actually some of them do rent in a good school district. I just haven’t met them yet.
In reality, XR’s home is rather small and was run-down. YH also said his friend’s home in a top school district is 小黑屋.
Even if they live in a good school district, their kids may not all fare well academically or socially. It’s simply untrue that all good schools’ students are stronger than all regular schools’ students.
In many cases, those who bought there may not benefit from the top school district, but they are still paying the pTaxes.
some bought 学区房 cos easy !!cos important #DeepakG
Deepak raised Point #2 — “For some peers, perhaps it wasn’t truly important to buy a school district home. Rather than important, it was easy to buy at their time. If they were in your shoes now, they may not be able to afford.”